Enormocast Turns 300: Chris Kalous Looks Back on His Legacy

The Enormocast officially has an enormo-past. Earlier this month, host Chris Kalous released the 300th episode of his iconic climbing podcast. And plot twist: Kalous sat in the hot seat as Alex Honnold fired away questions at climbing’s most famous voice.

Kalous’s podcast has come a long way since episode one. When he first sat down to record in 2011 from a trailer in Moab, Utah, he was a house painter and musician looking for a creative project. He turned out to be well ahead of his time with his commitment to the emerging medium of podcasting.

Fourteen years later, a lot has changed for Kalous. He’s upgraded from a tiny cabin to a “proper house.” He’s wildly exceeded his own expectations for his podcast project. And he’s officially a trad dad, with a whole lot more in the way of responsibilities. But his life still revolves around climbing. While he’s never been a pro climber himself, he attributes some of his success to getting out alongside the pros.

“I hung out in that kind of realm,” Kalous reflects. He compares himself to the Dean Fidelmans and Jeff Smoots of the world—photographers, writers, and creatives who weren’t necessarily the brilliant climbers, but were there when the brilliant climbers of the world were making history. “I’ve fallen into that role,” he says. (But don’t be fooled—Kalous is a pretty dang good climber.)

We caught up with Kalous to hear about his favorite episodes, his most awkward interview, whether he thinks climbing has changed for better or worse, and why he’s on a mission to capture the sound of every guest’s laugh.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.

Climbing: If you could go back in time and give a young Chris Kalous one piece of advice as he was about to record his first episode, what would it be? 

Chris Kalous: I don’t have a lot of advice for 2011 Chris Kalous. I kind of envy him now. It’s weird to say, but I think that at the time, I was on to something. I got very passionate about [podcasting] and I believed in it in a way that was forward-thinking at the time.

I laid out some rules for myself that really helped. I thought about how climbing would be sort of meaningless without the rules. It’d be like shooting around with a basketball versus playing a game. The game actually brings out the best in you. So, the rules matter.

I do have advice for my six-years-ago self, which would be to start a Patreon platform because I think I kind of avoided it. I have reasons for that, but I feel like it’s gone over the hump and people are pretty beat up by subscriptions now.

Watch an excerpt from our interview with Chris Kalous

Climbing: What were some of the rules you made for yourself and have you broken any of them? 

Kalous: I had the face rule—to make all the podcasts face-to-face, partially because the technology to remote call was really only Skype and it was hard to use. Again, this is almost pre-smartphone. I broke it after the pandemic for obvious reasons.

The other rule I had was: If I thought of it, I would do it. If it was a creative thing in my head, I would just do it. At the time, I wasn’t under any pressure from sponsors or anything. I thought podcasting was this very free and open thing and I was going to embrace that. So, if I felt embarrassed about it, I just tried to throw all that out the window and do whatever I wanted. I’m going to put it out there.

Climbing: What was it like being in the hot seat on your own show with Alex Honnold? 

Kalous: It was super fun and very casual. Honnold’s a superstar, but I’ve known him a really long time and climbing is small enough that for the most part, the superstars are very accessible. I mean, he’s super famous, but I don’t think there’s anybody who runs into him at the crag and is like, “That guy was a jerk.”

We’re not good buddies, but we’re close enough that we can give each other some shit, which is a hallmark of this podcast. That’s why I thought it would be kind of special to have him on—and that we have a shared history. Even though he’s a superstar, we’ve climbed around each other and we have all kinds of mutual friends. I think it’s actually a point of respect to be like you’re this big deal and we need to have some fun taking you down a notch.

But it was a good time and I have to say it was very generous of him. It’s really hard to get through to him, just because of the logistics of his life. But I talked to his agent and then his agent hit him up and he immediately was like, “That sounds like a really cool idea.” So, I can’t express my appreciation enough that he did what I had planned and did it really well.

Climbing: Looking back at your vast archives, is there one episode that stands out to you as a favorite? 

Kalous: There’s a running joke that the best Enormocast was Craig Demartino’s, episode 11. The running joke is that I peaked at 11. That one is still worth listening to. It’s scrappy in a cool way. And Craig did a really good job.

The other ones in the early days are six and seven with Hayden Kennedy, who’s passed away since and was a close friend of mine. We talked about when he and Jason Kruk chopped the Compressor Route bolts on Cerro Torre. It’s also super scrappy—I mean, we’re in my cabin, just powering through a 12-pack, which is just kind of the early days of podcasting. There’s some nostalgia. Hayden’s gone now, but historically, it was an important thing we got to.

Climbing: So those are the top picks from 1-100—any favorite episodes that stand out from 101-300? 

Kalous: The one with Didier Berthod, who is a crack climber. If you’re into crack climbing, you kind of know who this guy is, but many years ago, he literally disappeared into a monastery and gave up climbing and gave up on a bunch of parts of his life. It’s kind of a shocking story. It was a long interview, so I cut it into two parts, but it’s a great story. We’re good buddies. The sound could have been better, but he was in a van outside of a climbing gym in Squamish, so ….

Climbing: What about your most awkward interview? Have you ever asked a question and it just didn’t go over well?

Kalous: I can tell you the most awkward one is easily an interview with Hugh Herr, who is a climber of note from the late ‘70s and ‘80s. He lost both his legs on Mount Washington in New England. He was an excellent climber and went on to keep climbing with homemade prosthetics and he became basically the pre-eminent inventor who runs a lab at MIT that invents the most awesome and advanced prosthetic limbs.

But I just laugh at how awkward and weird it turned out. He’s not a super warm and personable person, at least at first. All his friends say that he very much is. But his brain is working on a level that is not much for small talk.

I think he got talked into coming on the show. I probably happened to email him at the right time and then he probably regretted saying yes, kind of a thing. He warmed up as he kind of figured out what was going on, but I’m sure he just thought I was some flunky from Wired magazine. I felt a little out of my league sitting in the room with this giant of his field.

Climbing: Let’s talk about the weird and brilliant ads at the start of your shows. What’s your creative process like for making these?

Kalous: What I get away with is really strange. When I got Black Diamond as my longtime sponsor, and I said, “Here’s what I’m going to do,” they were like, “That’s fine.” Then they just got weirder and weirder. Usually it’s a little bit of improv. My formula is I try to make myself laugh, or embarrass myself.

I make them up. I put them out. It’s kind of that old rule I had when I was starting: If I think of it, I’ll do it.

The only note I’ve ever gotten on a commercial is that I said ice axes were for ice, when they were really dry tooling or vice versa. I heard from the engineer at Black Diamond who had invented them. He was like, “Hey, no big deal, but those are for dry tooling or whatever.”

Climbing: Back to climbing, how do you feel the sport has evolved since you started the podcast and also how have you evolved not only as a climber, but as a person through this project? 

Kalous: Obviously, there’s the popularity of it, which comes with positives and negatives. Social media has changed the way we look at and appreciate climbing. I’m gonna sound like a get-off-my-lawn guy, but it’s not good for kids, it’s not good for teenagers, it’s not good for adults, it’s not good for climbing.

The act of climbing is almost no longer the most important part of climbing. I’ve been noticing that when I go climbing, a lot of the people out there don’t actually like the climbing part that much. It’s painful, it’s difficult, it’s cold, whatever. Even sport climbing, I look at people at the crag finding all these ways to make excuses as to why they’re not going to do another pitch that day. I don’t know how that’s related to social media, but I think that’s been a huge change and we’re all just wrapping our heads around the damage that social media has done to all of us and to society and yet it’s a classic drug situation where none of us can give it up.

Climbing: Overall, would you say climbing has changed for the better or for the worse since you started The Enormocast? 

Kalous: It’s either slightly better or the same. Aside from social media, when you peel all that away, and you go out and you are at a cliff, where people are approaching it with this sort of joy and this desire—that hasn’t changed very much.

It used to be: You don’t like that crowded crag? Hike a little further. Now it’s hike a little further, further. But once you get there and you’re out there climbing and you leave the ground, I don’t think it’s that much different.

Climbing is great. I love it. I’ve spent my whole life doing it. I talk about it. I still pursue my own goals with climbing. At the essence, it’s still this beautiful thing that brings out the best in people for the most part.

Climbing: The podcast landscape has changed so dramatically since you started. What are a few podcasts that you think are really innovative or that you just love listening to, climbing or otherwise?

Kalous: I don’t really listen to climbing podcasts. I dip in to see what’s going on, particularly with The Struggle, because I have a good relationship with Ryan Devlin. We kind of play off each other and help each other out.

I listen to a whole set of Slate podcasts. I listen to their sports podcast and one of their culture podcasts, to find out about books and things that I should be reading. I love their podcast Hit Parade. It’s a very nerdy music podcast. And then I’ve listened to Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History for a decade or more. Serial has been a little hit or miss since they basically reinvented podcasting the first time, but I thought the one on Guantanamo Bay was quite fascinating.

The Enormocast does not give a toot about training and most climbing podcasts are so training oriented. I’m just flat-out not interested in training advice, especially when it’s weekly training advice that seems to contradict last week’s training advice.

Climbing: Since becoming a podcast host, you’ve also become a dad. You talk about parenting and climbing frequently—does your son share your love of the sport? 

Kalous: Yes, I take him out climbing. No, he’s not into it. I mean, he tries it every time we go climbing. He has autism, very mild. I don’t know how that could translate into him just absolutely loving climbing or not, but in his case, he’s not interested in participating too much.

Our current barrier we’ve broken through is that he will go to the crag with us and hang out and allow us to climb for the most part. Sometimes something happens and you have to come off the third bolt and deal with it. But for the most part, we just reached that this fall.

Ironically, Rifle is like the best kid crag in the world. I say ironically because it used to be this total hotbed of angry climbing. But there’s this huge kid posse out there. I kept trying to be like, “Go play with those kids.” I should have known better because Miles is not that good at playing with other kids. He’s much more of a loner. We realized that just going with the three of us actually started to work. So that’s where we’re at.

Every time we go, he likes to put on the gear. He’ll get on the rope. Usually climb about five, six feet up and that’s it for the day and that’s fine. Every kid’s different, but you just have to let them be them, but also provide the opportunity. And push a little bit.

Climbing: How do you feel at this point in your career as a podcaster? Are you satisfied with the contributions you’ve made to the climbing community?  Or are there big things that you still want to do, whether it’s within the Enormorcast/Runout realm or beyond? 

Kalous: I feel really really proud of what I’ve done with The Enormocast. It snuck up on me. Originally I had in my mind 50 episodes, because I saw even then how podcasts come out of the gates, then start to fall off. It’s hard to get rewarded for what you’re doing, monetarily or otherwise.

But I had 50 in my head and then I just kept cranking them out and there was some time in the hundreds, where I was like, “Jesus this is a big archive of people and trends and the community.” It’s way more of a contribution to climbing than any first ascent or anything I’ve ever done as a climber by a grade of a thousand.

When people who I had interviewed started passing away some from old age or from what happens to you in the mountains or some from illness, I was like “Holy crap. This is an important piece of work.”

As far as podcasting goes, just in the last few months the landscape suddenly got really hard. I’ve been thinking about what the podcast is going to be going forward, but in my mind, I’m committed to another year, at least, or a couple years.

There are still people out there I want to talk to, either aging people who aren’t going to be here forever or just keep building this repository. It has this value that sometimes writing and books just don’t have, which is to hear the person’s voice. I always say: how they laugh is this picture into their soul, so I try to make people laugh or have a good time on these podcasts. But there is this ulterior motive of capturing the spirit of that person.

 

Read Stories by Kalous on Climbing

• “My Imaginary Relationship With Layton Kor Got a Little Weird.”
• Assume Nothing
• Ghost: Big Limestone in the Canadian Rockies

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